Overleg:Rotary International

pour lire la critique Rotary en français suivre http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_International

to read the critic of Rotary in English, please follow http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_International

um die Rotary-Kritik zu lesen auf deutsch zu folgen http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_Club

följ var god för att läsa kritikern av roterande i svenskt http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary

para leer la crítica del Rotary en espanol seguir http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_International ______________________________________________

over Rotary misdadigheden, van Pierre Larcin, PierreLarcin at fr.wikipedia :

Tot nu toe is er "rommel" in de Google links, ik veronderstel dat Rotarianen proberen Google te behandelen ;-) ______________________________________________

Blijkbaar op 1ste januari 2006 is er een probleem van neutraliteit voor dit Wiki over Rotary. Eerste punt, er is a confusie tuseen 'Rotary Netherlands' en 'Rotary International'

Twee, dat Wiki komt van Rotary boeken over het eigen geschiedenis Vergelijk maar met den artikel voor Rotary in "the FreeEncyclopedia" !! Hetzelde tekst

DERDE PUNT, ik heb mezelf het onderdeel over 'benoemde rotarians' geschreven, want gewoonlijk verbergen ze dat de benoemste waren nazi-ondersteuners als Lindbergh of Prescoot Bush, die hulp aan Thyssen gaf voor de financiering van de NSDAP ______________________________________________

I added the section of Famous Rotarians with Pinochet, Matsushita and Mac Arthur, on my own, because Rotary usual literature mentions people like Thomas Mann, Walt Disney, Amiral Byrd, but forgets generals and dictators.

Please have in mind that Matsushita was probably linked to the 1944-1946 affair of the "Fu-go" balloons, strategic japanese weapon, and that Panasonic-Matsushita is still a leader of remote control for balloons. These Fugo were planned to carry incendiary bombs, but also bacteriological bombs

Please have in mind that General MacArthur dismitted japanese war criminals from the Tokyo trials (1944), and that awful japanese crimes in Mandchouria were never judged. This allowed United States to gains profit (see Rotary rules "is this profitable for both parties ?") from the japanese researches on bacteriological subject. For info, Unit 731 in Mandchouria made dissections on living civilians (without anesthesy) and bombing of pest bombs onto living civilians linked to piloris.

And of course, you know all that Pinochet is now a filed criminal for tax fraud (like Al Capone) for american money that he received privately when he was an acting President, and for about 4000 'missing' persons. May I remind that the Condor plan was executed in South America under CIA control and with the execution of French extreme-right criminals (OAS) and ex-nazis like Klaus Barbie ?

Please have in mind that Rotary clubs were forbidden by Hitlerian regime in 1937, "as both appartenance to Nazi Party and Rotary is incompatible", which means that, DURING FOUR YEARS MINIMUM, Rotarians negociated with Nazis ? I speak of a "minimum", because of that Nazis had the power in Bavaria BEFORE 1933. And you know all that Bavaria is the cradle of Nazi party.

Thank you for your attention and thoughts pierre.larcinifrance.com __________________________________________________________________________________

to Martin Kramer : Martin Kramer Winter Springs, Florida U.S.A., msk995gmail.com

Martin, you were so violent in your 'answer' (you do not answer but just repeat the general considerations of Rotary on itself) to my questions that you wrapped off the two first paragraphs of my text. Hereunder I copied them AGAIN.

I have a few questions Martin : can you answer to my email about details on tsunami ? I mailed you asking details about what was sent by the Rotary to Tsunami victims.

Did they sent salt against deshydratation-water loss ? Systems for purifying water ? Medicine sent, I mean drugs ?

Are you member of the Rotary ? (according to Max WEBER, the founder of modern sociology , you should mention it before speaking, because we speak here about human sciences : politics and sociology, and the Rotary is certainly an object of sociology)

Are you a "republican" voter ? Do you believe in God - are you member of some church ?

Can your membership to a religion explain the violence of your reaction (you do NOT answer to my text, where I statute that Rotary does not help victims of armament, human being traffics, AIDS, medical errors, etc) ?

Can you answer to these two simple remarks :

- do you have "coloured" people in your Rotary club in Winter Falls ? Which percent ? Is this percentage related to the percentage of general population of Winter falls ?

- why does Rotary NOT launch local programs (except for handicapped and students exchange, actions only in other countries) : you do not have poors in Florida ? Is this lack related to the fact that these poors could be employees of the companies owned by members of the Rotary ?

We wait for your reflexions, Martin. Reflection : thought, but also reverberation of light ray onto the source emitter of light

Pierre :-) ______________________________________________ This text was suppressed by Martin Kramer in the beginning of my "Rotary Discussion" :

"If the Rotary club has for goal to give assistance to suffering communities such as blind men, young people, handicapped people, AIDS patients, one can notice:

that the Rotary programs against the AIDS victims are or invisible or non-existent that the communities "helped" by the Rotary are not represented in the authorities of the Rotary itself.

One can thus question the future of a movement which comes to assistance to men without agreeing to count them in its rows..."

Pierre Larcin, pierre.larcinifrance.com

hereunder the text of Martin Kramer Winter Springs, Florida U.S.A., msk995gmail.com ______________________________________________________________________________________

Rotary International is the largest service club in the world, boasting of over 1.2 million Rotarians in over 32,000 local Rotary Clubs in 164 countries. Rotary in non-political, as well as non-denominational. As a matter of fact, major Rotary meetings begin with a prayer that is common to ALL religions of the world. Rotary is the the rich, white man's club as many think it is; but it is comprised of business men and women from all walks of life.

Many do not realize that Rotarians world wide have been involved in a campaign to rid the world of Polio, and the end of this ravishing crippling disease is almost complete. Rotarians world wide have raised hundreds of millions of dollars, and have sent armies of volunteers into countries to innoculate children without any other agenda but to save the children.

Those that question Rotary International also would be surprised to find that this organization was at the forefront of the creation of the United Nations; and today, has seats as permanant observers.

Rotary has an agenda. That being to feed the hungry, house the homeless, and heal the sick. Rotarians give of themselves and thier time to go to third world countries where doctors performs surgeries and dentists provides dental care all at no cost whoatsoever. In India, it was 3 Rotarians who put their heads together to create the Jophur foot; a prothestic device for those who have lost limbs. Agains, these services are provided at no cost to the needy.

During the Tsunamis of 2005, Rotarians led the way in providing Shelter Boxes, temporary and immediate housing as well as basic cooking untensils and water sanitation to hundreds of thousands of displaced persons literally hours after the disaster; through donations from Rotarians throughout the world.

And the people who criticize Rotary as an eliteist organization of Kings, politicians and CEO's; Rotary International gives out more academic scholarships than all of the other known scholarships combined. It's latest undertaking is the Rotary Centers for International Studies In Peace and Conflict Resolution. Here, at universities in seven countries world wide, students at a higher education level can study conflict resolution; with the idea that inyears to come, they will be able to work with governments to settle disputes without war.

There are literally thousands of projects constantly going on with Rotary Clubs throughout the world. AIDS awareness project, clean blood projects, clean water projects, health projects, education; the list goes on.

Always remember Rotary's motto: "Service Above Self." Plus the Rotary 4-Way Test:

Is it the Truth? Is it Fair to All Concerned? Will it Build Good Will and Better Friendships? Will it Be Beneficial to All Concerned?

Martin Kramer Winter Springs, Florida U.S.A. msk995gmail.com

=================================================================================

here is my text who was censured by Martin. The first two paragraphs are above. Pierre

=================================================================================

One can thus question the future of a movement which comes to assistance to men without agreeing to count them in its rows... For example, European executifs of the Rotary (in France, Belgium, Italy) include/understand, neither black, neither Jew, neither Arabic, neither Asian, neither handicapped, neither woman, nor patient of the AIDS, for example.

In addition, one can observe that 1/the Rotary tries nationally to obtain national Presidencies of eminent personages: - the King Albert II of Belgium, implied in various scandals of armament or prostitution (ASCO affair, Fortunato Israel affair), - the Pinochet General in Chile, implied in various disappearances and embezzlements, - and many other preserving personalities

2/Rotarian recruitment often includes/understands political personnel criticizing the State role ("liberal" politicians, affiliated for example to Belgian liberal "reformers" or RPR-UMP in France, with the American conservatives, such as the former presidents Nixon, Ford, Reagan and Bush junior)

3/the Rotary does not emit any action against the armament, the prostitution, the AIDS, and does not support nor the victims of the wars, crimes, or the traffic of human beings neither join or complete actions of public institutions, whereas its actions releve of the public services (health, education, UNESCO, third age, handicapped). The fact that the Rotary ' have contribute' to found UNESCO is thus relevant of a conceptual abuse.

The role of the Rotary thus remains associated to the question of knowing, in a human society, which role is associated to the public services of government. Under these conditions, how to be astonished that the "liberal" personalities associated with the European liberal political parties claim the privatization of the public services?

Whereas in 2005-2006, in Iraq the Bush administration goes in its madness of appropriation until defending a design of the war which returns to private war (engagement of many private companies, -iow "mercenaries"- for 'private' security), can one admit that the State allows the Rotarians to exert 1/the assistance toh education (private curses of studies) 2/the assistance to handicapped (management of work centers) 3/the development of international co-operation (private programs of assistance)

Can one admit in Europe to come to a situation where public services are partially taken by private corporations, such as missions of guarding, circulation, education, international assistance ?

Finally the ritual (banquets, white gloves), the symbols (freemason symbol as compass and triangle hidden in the six rows of the Rotarian Wheel) the exclusively male composition of the Rotary clubs ("with evenings where the ladies are allowed") (associated with the exclusively female composition of InnerWheel, which gathers... the wives of Rotarians) (and this, despite a recent "reform" that allowed women in Rotary clubs...in theory ), calls to 'the compassion' and 'to fraternity ', the mechanism of co-optation, the costumes (aprons in the United States Rotary clubs), the gloves, the banquets are connected with ritual the freemasons.

One can thus wonder on the one hand if such a sociologically conservative movement as a future, on the other hand if the movement is not used to give good conscience to some businessmen which, nowadays, work on world-outsourced products (iow manufactured... in the Third World), or that the Rotary, in countries where it is pursued, is used as public frontage to the activities of the free-mason lodges, held by "the secret".

Pierre Larcin, Lille, France pierre.larcinifrance.com

Recovered from "http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discuter:Rotary_International"

In French

Si le Rotary se donne pour but de venir en aide aux communautés en souffrance telles les aveugles, jeunes, handicapés, malades, on peut remarquer : que les programmes Rotary contre le Sida sont ou invisibles ou inexistants que les communautés "aidées" par le Rotary ne sont pas représentées dans les instances du Rotary.

On peut donc se poser la question de l'avenir d'un mouvement qui vient en aide a des hommes sans accepter de les compter dans ses rangs... Par exemple, les executifs européens du Rotary (en France, en Belgique; en Italie) ne comprennent, ni noir, ni juif, ni arabe, ni asiatique, ni handicapé, ni femme, ni malade du Sida, par exemple.

Par ailleurs, on peut observer que 1/ les Rotary nationaux essaient d'obtenir des Présidences nationales de hautes personnalités : - le Roi Albert II de Belgique, impliqué dans divers scandales d'armement ou de moeurs, - le Général Pinochet au Chili, impliqué dans diverses disparitions et malversations, - et bien d'autres personnalités conservatrices 2/ le recrutement rotarien comprend souvent des personnels politiques critiques de l'Etat ("libérales", affiliés aux réformateurs libéraux belges ou aux RPR-UMP en France, aux conservateurs américains, telles que les ex-présidents Nixon, Ford, Reagan et Bush junior) 3/ le Rotary n'émet aucune action contre l'armement, la prostitution, le SIDA, et ne soutient ni les victimes des guerres, de crimes, ou du trafic d'etres humains 4/ le Rotary s'associe ou complete des actions de service public, alors que ses actions releve des services publics (santé, éducation, Unesco, troisieme age, handicapés) Le fait que le Rotary 'aie contribué' à fonder l'Unesco releve donc d'un abus conceptuel.

Le role du Rotary reste donc associé a la question de savoir, dans une société, quel role est associé aux services publics. Dans ces conditions, comment s'étonner que les personnalités associées aux partis politiques libéraux pronent la privatisation des services publics ?

Alors qu'en 2005-2006, en Irak l'administration Bush va dans sa folie d'appropriation jusqu'à défendre une conception de la guerre qui revient à la guerre privée (engagement de nombreuses sociétés privées, càd de mercenaires), peut-on admettre que l'Etat permette aux Rotariens d'exercer 1/ l'aide à l'éducation (bourses privées d'études) 2/ l'aide aux handicapés (gestion de centres de travail) 3/ la coopération au développement (programmes privés d'aide) Admettra-t-on qu'en Europe on en arrive à une situation ou meme les services les plus régaliens sont partiellement privés (missions de gardiennage, de circulation, de renseignement, d'archivage, "d'insertion" dans la société) ?

Enfin le rituel (banquet, prieres), les symboles, la composition exclusivement masculine du Rotary ("avec des soirées où les dames sont admises") (pendant à la composition exclusivement féminine du InnerWheel, qui regroupe... les épouses de Rotariens), les appels à la 'compassion' et de 'fraternité', le mécanisme de cooptation, les costumes (tabliers aux Etats-Unis), les gants, les banquets s'apparentent aux rituels francs-maçons.

On peut donc se demander d'une part si sociologiquement il ne s'agit pas d'un mouvement conservateur, d'autre part si le mouvement ne sert pas à donner bonne conscience aux hommes d'affaires qui, de nos jours, travaillent sur des produits mondialisés (càd fabriqués...dans le Tiers-Monde), ou que le Rotary, dans des pays ou elle est pourchassée, serve de facade publique aux activités des loges francs-maçonnes, tenues au secret.

Pierre Larcin, Lille, pierre.larcinifrance.com

Récupérée de « http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discuter:Rotary_International »

NPOV

I removed the NPOV message. The Dutch text only gives some facts (number of members, when and where it started etc), and a list of names. Maybe the list is POV, but in that case please add some names to make it NPOV. There is nothing in the article about Nazis, rituals etc. as mentioned above on this talk page. Maybe you want to add some critical notes, but please learn Dutch first (difficult of course), find a Dutch speaking friend, or wait until some Dutch speaking person add some additional notes. Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter1..overleg.. 6 jan 2006 15:56 (CET)

Sure no problem. It has now more balance as with Famous Rotarians, we do not see progressive personalities, but only conservative politicians. What do you think of Prescott Bush as an active Rotarian ? PierreLarcin3 19 feb 2006 23:22 (CET)

Benoemde Rotarians

Om Pinochet nu als 'beroemde' Rotarian op te voeren is wel een beetje cru niet? Misschien dat een 'berucht' beter zou passen, maar ja dat is weer POV. Vooralsnog dus maar de benaming aangehouden die ook het artikel over Pinochet geeft: generaal en dictator. AlexP 20 feb 2006 16:39 (CET)

Hmmm, heb me toch maar een beetje ingelezen. Het lijkt erop ene Pierre Larcin dit artikel in navolging van de artikelen op andere WP's gebruikt om een privé vete tegen de Rotary uit te vechten waarbij misstappen c.q. misdaden van personen die teven Rotary lid waren worden gebruikt om de gehele organisatie als 'slecht' af te schilderen. Het lijkt erop dat wij nu ook aan de beurt zijn. AlexP 20 feb 2006 19:42 (CET)

Mijnheer AlexP, dat is Uw eigen beeld van mijn werk. Als u de band volgde naar de 'Benoemde Rotarianen', kunt U zien, dat, even op Rotary Internet bladen, de Rotary noemt Pinochet als Honorair Lied. Maar zeker hebt U dat niet gevolgd, sorry dat ik bewust U maakt over Rotary, maar inderdaad is er wel een probleem met Rotary.

Als U maakt zo'n een condamnatie van mijn werk, hebt U zeker eerst de andere banden gevolgd ? Misschien heb U Uw eigen cliché's van mij of van Rotary. Dat is de eerste oorzaak van Uw geweld.

Ik heb de tag NPOV hier geplaats, voor de list van Benoemde Rotariaans te plaatse. De tag was weggenomen door de administrators. Daarna de list. Sorry, de list komt van Rotary zelf. Bovendien is er Charles Lindbergh, fameuze antisemist, maar hij was weg ookl !!

Bovendien, dat is geen geheim dat ik ben TEGEN Rotary. De probleem is dat mensen die VOOR zijn maken stilte erover en proberen te invloeden. Als men leest de statuten van Rotary, wie kan ernstig weigeren te aanvaarden dat de Rotary specialiteit is publieken relaties ?

Dus, niets te zeggen over Rotary. Censure. En daarna in elk vergadering van R.I. spreekt men over Pinochet, MacArthur, Lindbergh als Benoemde Rotarians !! Kent U toevallig Unit 731 in Korea en wat deed MacArthur van de warCriminelen van Unit 731 en voor welke bedoeling ?? Lees maar en.wikipedia over Unit 731 !! Minder censure dan op nl.wikipedia !!

PierreLarcin3 21 feb 2006 00:15 (CET)

Ga uw kruistocht s.v.p. ergens anders voeren. Negatieve informatie mag mits geobjectiveerd en onderbouwd waarbij drogredenen zoals enkele bekende leden waren fout dus de organisatie is ook fout niet worden geaccepteerd. AlexP 21 feb 2006 00:54 (CET)

Benoemde Rotarians manipulatie door AlexP in Rotary International

Ik heb geen kruistocht te nemen. Kruistocht is voor de mensen die geloven dat Kristus heeft in de hemel gezwemd. In Holland zijn van deze vele 'illuminati', maar ik ben niet.

(huidig) (vorige) 20 feb 2006 19:49 AlexP (huidig) (vorige) 20 feb 2006 16:35 AlexP (→Benoemde Rotarians)

                       ==>>  Dit persoon heeft "Diktator" INGEVOERD om mijn werk te vuilen

(huidig) (vorige) 20 feb 2006 14:09 NielsF k (motorfietsen weer teruggezet, wel relatie: de naam!)

Generaal en Dictator was geintroduceer door AlexP. Mensen kunnen dit blad manipuleren, Rotary is echt een conservatief beweging.

PierreLarcin3 21 feb 2006 06:26 (CET)

Opzoutelen! Mig de Jong 21 feb 2006 13:57 (CET)

Neem me niet kwalijk, maar het blijkt dat u niet begrijpt : dit POV 'dictator' heb IK niet geplaatst, dat was door een andere persoon geplaatst (ik denk dat het is AlexP)daarna weggenomen door dezelfde gebruiker. Wilt U eens controleren voor uw eigen opinie, op de geschiedenis van de blad 'Rotary International' ? Bedankt, PierreLarcin3 21 feb 2006 21:00 (CET)

Ter informatie, wij hadden een reeks NPOV problemen met PierreLarcin3 op WP:fr en WP:en. Dit gebruiker, en zijn IP's, zoals 84.102.229.159, heeft maar een mening op de verscheiden wikis: creatie van schuld door associatie. Dit, bv, heeft als doel te tonen dat Rotary is een organisatie van moordenaren en fascisten. Op WP:fr was hij indef blocked. Op WP:en, admins moesten de Rotary onder semi-protection plaatsen. Hetzelfde voor de "Augusto Pinochet" artikel.

De enige oplossing in WP:fr en WP:en was de namen van Rotary leden totaal te verwijderen voor origineel onderzoek en POV die kon niet geneutraliseerd worden. Ook de Categorie:Rotary Club-lid zou moeten verwijdered worden. Kijk eens maar naar de namen die daarin zijn: de bedoeling is duidelijk, neen? Bradipus 20 mei 2008 00:15 (CEST)

hergroepering België in 4 districten?

Heeft iemand enige idee (en bron) hoe het is afgelopen met het voorstel (oktober 2017) om de districten in België taalhomogener te maken?--Bancki (overleg) 8 aug 2018 16:56 (CEST)