Overleg gebruiker:Samuel (WMF)

Overleg Wikipedia:Universele gedragscode

Hi Samuel:

"Tot nu toe tekent alleen de ArbCom van de Engelstalige Wikipedia WMF-geheimhoudingsverklaringen (NDA’s)."

The NDA is in general also signed by OTRS-members and checkusers, of which we have several. So why would you mention the English Arbcom here...? I think I'm misunderstanding something? Ciell 12 jun 2020 20:51 (CEST)

WMF messages

Hi Samuel,

I've blocked your account for an hour, because of the huge amount of talkpages you are messaging to tell them you've send them an email.

If you would like to mass message people, please use an opt-in list, and make use of the mass-message extension, or ask a local admin. People on the Dutch Wikipedia in general do not like being 'spammed', as they call it, and especially not when the spamming goes on and on and clogs up our recent changes. If you have send them an email, please wait for their response: if they have not responded in due time, then you could leave them a reminder.

Please be more considerate next time.

Ciell 24 sep 2020 16:08 (CEST)

Hello @Ciell::, thank you for reaching out. I am sorry that these messages are viewed are disruptive. The intent here is to request users attention about an e-mail they received earlier this month and which may have been marked as spam. The annual survey is an important way for the communities to share their views and concerns with the Foundation. Based on community feedback from the previous years, we’re considering moving away from the three repeated pings historically used. The e-mails we’ve sent request the consent (opt-in) of contributors so that, moving forward, we can e-mail them instead of sending on-wiki messages. So the plan is to eliminate the annual disruption and rely only on opt-in email recipients. You may read more about the discussion surrounding this survey here. Should the current pings clog up the recent changes, I could reduce their frequency or use MassMessage instead. Would you consider this be a better alternative? Best regards Samuel (WMF) (overleg) 24 sep 2020 16:57 (CEST)

Could you make your messages in future less cryptic? Your latest message looks like an annoucement of something that is still to come, not like something that already could have ended up with my junkmail. Hans Erren (overleg)

Hello @Hans Erren:. Thank you for your feedback and sorry for the confusion. Is it that the source text (in English) is confusing or that the translation has some issues? Is there an example of phrasing you would have preferred? This is a genuine question as we desire to be clearly understood by all the communities we're reaching to. Best regards Samuel (WMF) (overleg) 24 sep 2020 17:19 (CEST)

Perhaps you could hire Sean Bean to spread word about the survey next time. Than, perhaps, a phrase like ""The Community Insights survey is coming!" would at least make sense. Natuur12 (overleg) 24 sep 2020 18:52 (CEST)

Als je denkt dat degene die niet gereageerd hebben op een e-mail die e-mail als spam hebben ingeschat (wat het feitelijk ook is), dan lijkt me de kans groot dat diezelfde mensen het bericht op hun overlegpagina ook als spam gaan beschouwen. Dan zijn jullie volgens mij niet zo slim bezig. - Robotje (overleg) 24 sep 2020 21:10 (CEST)

Hi Samuel, thanks for explaining. You are referring to Rebecca's email, right? I only received her mail yesterday (Wednesday), the 23rd. So that's why I halted your actions. Because we (the Dutch community) still mostly manually check, and mark as patrolled, all anonymous changes, a lot of people here (exactly the ones you are targetting with this community insight survey I guess) work either from their watchlist, or from the recent changes. that is why the community doesn't like 'spam' on talkpages, it has a negative influence on their patrolling routine. So all in all, as I said: ask for an opt-in once, like you/Rebecca did yesterday per email. And leave a bit more time for people to respond then just 24 hours. Ciell 24 sep 2020 21:48 (CEST)

Hello @Ciell: We are only sending an on-wiki message to people emailed on 1 September whom we have not yet heard from. Anyone who received an opt-in email this week will not receive an on-wiki message for at least a few weeks, if at all. Best, RMaung (WMF) (overleg) 24 sep 2020 22:12 (CEST)

@RMaung (WMF) thank you for clarifying this. And how many people from the Dutch community did you reach out to? Because I still think hundreds of talk page messages on the same subject, a questions that people declined to answer by email, is unwanted by the Dutch community. Ciell 24 sep 2020 22:33 (CEST)

Hi RMaung (WMF), with all due respect, I'm afraid you're missing the central point here: as Ciell has quite adequately pointed out, many people on this wiki consider messages like these to be spam. And do you really think it is up to the WMF to divulge who has not responded to that original mail? Regards, Wutsje 24 sep 2020 22:50 (CEST)

Hello @Wutsje, Ciell:, sorry for the delayed response. I am really grateful for your feedback here. It was helpful for interacting with the remaining communities. For instance, we made sure to inform other communities in the village pump and explained the context before starting to send messages (see the examples on Es.WP and Fr.WP for example), which led to no issues on those communities.

While I am truly sorry that the notices on the Dutch Wikipedia was a cause of disruption, I am genuinely interested in ways to improve our ways to gather ideas and critics from the community. Earlier, you suggested using the community forums as well as drafting a more clear messages. Those are valuable inputs that we'll make sure to consider in the future. Would you have any other recommendations regarding our outreach in the future? Kindest regards —— Samuel (WMF) (overleg) 29 sep 2020 15:06 (CEST)

Final warning

Dear Samuel (WMF),

Please conciser this a final warning. Kindly refrain from spreading spam via this wiki. If you continue to do so, either via this account, another account or via the MediaWiki message delivery service this may result in either the MediaWiki message delivery being blocked (and I would rather avoid that because of the collateral damage it will cause) or your editing privileges being blocked for a longer period of time.

Kind regards,

Natuur12 (overleg) 25 sep 2020 20:04 (CEST) Kind regards,

Hello @Natuur12:, this was not intentional. I had put messages to NL.WP on hold while the discussion here was going on. After double checking, I now realize that I also shipped messages to some Dutch wiki contributors when I was reaching out to contributors who speak ( Polish). I am sorry that it was perceived as going by force, which was by no means my intention. Kindest regards Samuel (WMF) (overleg) 29 sep 2020 14:30 (CEST)

I'm not sure how I should respond, mostly because I'm a bit shocked by your response. I don't doubt your intentions but your actions are culpable (morally, not legally) mostly because of your sloppy work methods. You didn't properly check your list before sending the mass message. When your list contains 108 Dutch Wikipedia users and you fail to notice or don't check if this is correct, you're being reckless. You could have checked user pages if any of the users indicated that they speak Polish for example. For any community user, what you did would be grounds for an immediate removal off the mass message flag because of competence issue's.

This wiki's community isn't the most easy community to communicate with, I do realize that. I do have some advice on this issue. When sending mass messages, why not consult an expert next time. Like the director of WMNL who knows all the ins and outs of this wiki. Odds are that she can give you a pretty accurate estimation of what might work and what will create a public uproar.

Also, the mails you send. Did someone make sure that this doesn't violate the General Data Protection Regulation? I know WMF higher management has little love for EU law but people here do care if their civil rights are violated. This discussion indicates that there is some confusion about how the WMF found out the mailadres of users. Perhaps you (or someone else) could explain how you got acces to the e-mailadressen used for the survey mail? Natuur12 (overleg) 29 sep 2020 21:22 (CEST)