Wikipedia:Overlegpagina's raadpleging 2019/Summary

Summary of the talk page consultation on the Dutch Wikipedia (nl.wikipedia.org).

• 16 registered users participated in the consultation: Bdijkstra, Ciell, Encycloon, Lidewij C J., Lotje, Mar(c), OSeveno, Oxygene7-13, Richardkiwi, Robotje, Schilbanaan, TaalBarbaar, Thieu1972, Vinvlugt, Wikidrinker, and Woudloper.

general remarks

• Although the number of participants is small, this is an important issue on the Dutch Wikipedia. A recent survey (over 300 respondents) showed half of them not satisfied with working atmosphere. Those people are not satisfied with how people interact with each other, which has to do with edit summaries, talk pages, and user talk pages. Only 8 percent of respondents visits the Village pump, a place notorious for unfriendly interactions.
• Almost all participants on this talk page consultation comment on behavior of people, the way they respond to each other, or do not respond to each other. These behavioral aspects of talk pages dominates the technical aspects. People tend not to believe in technical solutions to behavioral issues. Nonetheless some ideas have been floated which might help a little bit in some areas.
• Some commented on general distrust in the Wikimedia Foundation and their developers. Some believe the approach is biased, or negative, or that already decisions about changes have been made.

summary per question

1. When you want to discuss a topic with your community, what tools work for you, and what problems block you?
   • How to attract more people into a conversation and increase diversity in participation and points of view?
   • Veterans notice the echo system, and newcomers do not notice the bell with a number on top of the page. Long ago a screen wide orange bar did notify you got a message on your talk page. That was intrusive, and effective to induce a response. (Mentioned twice)
2. What about talk pages works for newcomers, and what blocks them?
   • Newcomers face a hostile frontier of veterans (not all veterans). Some newcomers regret an AfD after they have been pushing NE/POV.
   • Newcomers don't engage on talk pages. Email notifications of messages on talk pages result in OTRS tickets rather than replies on talk pages.
   • Design of talk pages is too different from current other social media websites
   • Newcomers prefer top posting on talk pages
   • Idea: post human and not bot messages op (IP) talk pages
   • Idea: post friendly feedback (don't bite the newcomers)
   • Idea: six tildes signing to show functionary status. Another respondent comments on the secret language of abbreviations he doesn't understand, and suggest have two types of editors: one who writes articles, and one who maintains.
   • For newcomers to sign and indent is too complicated, the current design is non-intuitive. This is backed by another respondent, who likes to have a concise summary of all rules. [user story: (opt out functionality) as a new user I want to post a reply on a topic that automagically is indented and signed].
   • Encourage not logged in editors to register a username, by telling them the advantages of it.
   • Discourage personal feedback at article talk pages, reduce flaming.
3. What do others struggle with in your community about talk pages?
   • Sign (three times)
   • Adopt Flow (three times, although some veterans don't like it)
   • Enforce edit summary
4. What do you wish you could do on talk pages, but can't due to the technical limitations?
   • Refer to a specific position on the article page (two times). On the article page itself <!-- invisible text --> can be added, to pinpoint a comment to a specific position.
   • Flagging inappropriate comments (with something like a small button, so a functionary can follow up)
   • Delete or suppress inappropriate comments
   • On en.wp this tool adds a reply button after the signature of each comment. Clicking it will open a form to leave a reply, without worrying about indentation. One user would like to see it as standard functionality.
5. What are the important aspects of a "wiki discussion"?
   • Some discussion on Dutch wiki tend to escalate to quickly, like a flame war.
   • Idea: technically slow down number of comments on such a page
   • Idea: New "Add reply" button, just like "Add topic" tab, to prevent edit conflicts.
   • Tools to prevent gridlock
   • Too much ad hominem arguments on the Dutch wiki
   • Idea: forum lay out