Overleg gebruiker:Archaeodontosaurus

Hallo Archaeodontosaurus, en welkom op de Nederlandstalige Wikipedia!

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Silver Spoon ^(?) 3 mrt 2010 19:11 (CET)

Plaatjes met eieren

Beste Archaeodontosaurus, ik heb mijn twijfel over het nut van het toevoegen van plaatjes met eieren of legsels bij de artikelen over vogels. Volgens de flora- en faunawet is het in Nederland verboden om (van de meeste in het wild levende vogels) de eieren te verzamelen of zelfs te bekijken (want verstoring van een broedende vogel is ook verboden). Daarom vind ik het weinig zinvol om te tonen hoe een ei eruit ziet. Nu begrijp ik best dat dit zinnige informatie is, maar het hindert mij vooral omdat veel vogelartikelen nog zeer summier zijn en in dat geval krijgt dat ei wel erg veel aandacht. Graag contact hierover (ik neem aan dat je Nederlands kunt lezen, je mag me in het Frans of Engels antwoorden als je je beter thuis voelt in die talen). Met vriendelijke groet, --HWN (overleg) 28 jul 2012 21:32 (CEST)

Vous avez parfaitement raisons, sur le fond.Il ne faut jamais perturber les nids. Dans la version française pour les espèces protégées il est rappelé à chaque fois la loi qui interdit de toucher les œufs et d’en faire collection. Mais nous avons aussi le devoir de les monter, en rappelant le cadre strict : il s’agit d’objets d’études déposés dans une collection publique. Ceci est dit dans la légende de l’image, avec le N° de collection. Notre conservateur répond aux questions qui lui sont posées relativement à ses images. Pour les versions qui possèdent un article sur le MHNT (La version Néerlandaise l’a) la référence est mise avec le titre de la Photographie. Le MHNT possède plus de 15 000 Œufs, il est le seul musée au monde à s’être engagé avec Wikipedia pour la diffusion libre des images de ses collections Ici.

Je vous propose, de continuer à illustre votre encyclopédie, et vous devriez ajouter dans chaque article d’ornithologie, le rappel de la loi.

Merci de m’avoir permis de vous répondre en Français et en Anglais --Archaeodontosaurus (overleg) 29 jul 2012 10:04 (CEST)

You are quite substantive reasons. You should never disturb the nests. In the French version for protected species is reminded every time the law banning touching the eggs and collect them.

But we also need to mount them, recalling the strict framework: it is an object of study filed in a public collection. This is said in the caption of the image, with the No. collectibles. Our curator answers questions put to him in respect of its images. For versions that have an article on MHNT (The Dutch version of a) the reference is set with the title of Photography. The MNHT has more than 15,000 eggs, he is the only museum in the world have engaged with Wikipedia free for the dissemination of images of its collections here.

I propose to continue to illustrate your encyclopedia, and you should add to each section of ornithology, the repeal of the law.

Thank you for allowing me to answer you in French and English. --Archaeodontosaurus (overleg) 29 jul 2012 10:04 (CEST)

Thanks for your quick answer. I fully understand your position, you will definitely not stimulate people to search and collect bird eggs. I shall never remove the illustrations, but I feel free to add comments about our "flora- en faunawet" or to replace and/or to downsize the illustrations for instance in a "gallery".[1] --HWN (overleg) 29 jul 2012 10:39 (CEST)

This conversation is particularly useful. It affects the philosophical aspect of our work. Retention of information goes against our goals. This is the meaning of my struggle. Because I have a hard time convincing other national institutions to open their doors to free diffusion. I'll tell you a little story just related to ornithology. A few months ago the police seized and confiscated a collection of eggs in a private in the depths of a small village in the Pyrenees. The collector in question is a simple love of nature. He had created this collection for educational and free lectures was small Pyrenean villages. He could not in good faith that he should not touch the eggs or pick them up or carry them etc ... It was a symbolic almond, his collection was confiscated; the MHNT is now the custodian. We have the power of Wikipedia to understand that there are laws only see the rules of common sense, to have a behavior ecologist. I think we could reflect with some of our comrades, not only on how to ride, but mostly up a simple message with those images. I am of the opinion to go further than what you propose. We could consider the need for systematic messages on the images of egg, nest and juvenile. To put this message in the Gallery of COMMONS, and for each species in ornithology. For Wikipedia articles I've always favored putting a sentence on the repeal of the law at least in France ... What do you think? --Archaeodontosaurus (overleg) 29 jul 2012 18:55 (CEST)

Dear Archaeodontosaurus, firstly, thanks for your point of view. I have a good friend (a Frisian) who also has a collection of eggs. His schoolteacher in the 1950s stimulated his pupils to collect eggs. This was in that period a way to confront young people with nature and to raise love for nature. Until now, the collection of eggs of the lapwing (Vanellus vanellus) is still part of the Frisian folklore and permitted (within limits) by law. This is my story. As far as I know, the possession of a private egg collection is not at all a crime in The Netherlands.

I agree with your viewpoint that the Wikipedia philosophy is against the principle of hiding information, even if you think this may lead to politically of ecologically incorrect behavior. The facts, illustration etc. are not the cause of evil, the way people are using them might be evil.

I am not so well in the technical aspects of placing information in the “commons”. If you mean that all your egg illustrations will be linked/accompanied to a multilingual text in which the reader will be informed about the legislation around collecting eggs and searching for bird nest, I will help you to make a text about the flora and faunawet in The Netherlands (But I don’t know how the law is in Flanders). Friendly greeting, --HWN (overleg) 30 jul 2012 16:24 (CEST)

PS I think the best is to cite European nature conservation law. I suddenly remember that the collection of eggs in Friesland, is said to be against European law! See: Summaries European legislation

I think the best way to proceed is to make a template that will give a message on each image egg. This template will be available for anyone willing to put their own image of ornithology. I'll show before launching the operation. --Archaeodontosaurus (overleg) 31 jul 2012 09:01 (CEST)

Replacing pictures

Hi Archaeodontosaurus, you have been adding and replacing a number of pictures on this project in the last few days. Thank you for taking the trouble. In a number of cases you replaced pictures that have a legend. From this talk page, it is obvious you don't understand our language. I'm sorry to have to inform you that I consider this bad practice. It's also obvious that most pictures you added, are your own material. I'm afraid you were, in some cases, a bit biased as to the quality of your own material and the picture you removed. It is of course great that you make your pictures available on Commons. It's also great if you inform us of their availability. I guess however, the best way to do this is to add a comment to the talk page of the article where you think your picture could be usefull. It is then up to an editor who does read and understand Dutch to judge if the replacement would indeed be an improvement and if the picture and the legend would still match. I hope you'll consider this very carefully when you want to make more pictures available. Cheers,  Wikiklaas  overleg  6 jun 2013 21:46 (CEST)

This is very true, I have a lot of problems with your langague.

For "Scutigera coleoptrata" image that I have proposed is much better. But the black background may be desagrable. you do not just be wrong.

For "Beaten polydamas" two illustrations are of very poor quality. The first does not recognize the species. I propose to keep the photo that I proposed at least in the article. The goal is to provide images to recognize the species.

To Judasboom you took a picture of flower that is recognized as being the best. It is recommended to look at the pictures and read the captions. You also remove the image of the bluffs without explanation.

For Laurier same problem removing one recognized as the best picture without explanation.

• We have the same ideals and we want to see this project move forward. Quite honestly I would like to have a contact for the Dutch wikipedia. Take a step towards each other and work together.Archaeodontosaurus (overleg) 7 jun 2013 11:29 (CEST)

Hi Archaeodontosaurus, there's no need to copy this discussion to my talk page. I follow your talk page as long as our discussion is going on here. To give you the reasons for undoing some of your edits:

• Scutigera coleoptrata: Your image is beautifull BUT the legend under the original picture states that the head of the animal is in the top of the picture. In the original picture, this is quite easy to see; in yours is was not. The original picture just showed more clearly what it was supposed to show, in spite of the rather ugly background.
• Battus polydamas: As a rule of thumb, in nl-wiki we place a picture of a live organism in the top part of the taxobox if one is available. You replaced it with a good but rather technical picture, not showing the animal as it is seen in real life. As a compromise, I now added your picture underneath the text.
• Judasboom: you replaced a picture where the legend said "Bloemen" (which is "Flowers"). The original picture showed just that: flowers. Your replacement picture may have been judged a quality picture but the user would have to open it to actually see the flowers, where the original picture showed those quite clearly already without having to open it. So I undid your edit.
• Laurier: for this one, nearly the same goes as for the previous one: the flowers in your picture are smaller and the reader would have to open it to see the details, whereas in the original picture, the details are already visible in the thumbnail. Stating that your picture was recognized as one of the best does not help: as long as the picture doesn't do what it is supposed to do, it is of no use.

Now I think I gave you ample explanation. In general, I think it is not a good idea to edit articles in a language you do not understand, apart from correcting an occasional scientific name or so. The Dutch Wikipedia has quite a number of contributors. Many of them are also active on Wikispecies, Wikidata and Wikimedia Commons. We also quite regularly compare our articles with the equivalent ones in other large Wikipedias, such as the English, German and French ones. If we see possibilities for improvement there, they will be considered. If you add your images to Commons, they will be found. There is absolutely no need for you to push your own images on this project. Hope this helped.  Wikiklaas  overleg  7 jun 2013 18:40 (CEST)

• Scutigera coleoptrata is in the same position, your explanation is not convincing. But the black fear displeasing I do not insist on this image. You do not follow the recommendations.
• Battus polydamas I agree with your proposal
• Judasboom The same remark the picture is labeled for flowers you do not follow the recommendations. The image of the bark is replaced. I do not insist on the flowers.
• Laurier your arguments are pathetic and once again you do not follow recommendations. I do not insist on this picture.

For the next image we will discuss in the talk page of each image to the community and follow our exchanges Archaeodontosaurus (overleg) 8 jun 2013 15:59 (CEST)

Please compare the two images of Scutigera coleoptrata and you'll have to admit that the details of the animal are better visible in the original one. In the one with the black background, it is hardly visible that it is the head on top, so it is not about a displeasing black background, it is about the subject itself being visible in more detail in the original image. With respect to the Judasboom you refer to certain recommendations. I don't know what you're talking about but if it is about your image being labeled as a "quality image", then you probably confuse a qualification with a recommendation. The same applies to the image of the laurier flowers. I'll leave the qualification "pathetic" up to you. You add that "you do not insist" on that picture. Do you have any idea as to what would be the effect of you "insisting" on a certain picture? In your last sentence you talk about "exchanges". I do not see "exchanges", I only see someone who is trying to force his images upon this project.

As I told you elsewhere, having to discuss hundreds of images with you on a case-by-case basis would become a very time consuming and tiring effort, especially because it's not just the Dutch language you don't master, you're also not very able to express yourself in English, which would hamper our discussions too much (and indeed already does). I'm not prepaired to do that just because you won't listen to reason. I already gave you a good possibility to overcome the language problem: let the images speak for themselves, on commons or in your own user space.  Wikiklaas  overleg  10 jun 2013 04:13 (CEST)

Just one other example

I'm giving you one other example to convince you why it is a very bad idea to have you add images to our articles yourself. In Rietgors you added the image of eggs. The legend you added however, reads: "Emberiza schoeniclus MHNT". That's not what the image shows! If you would let us Dutch editors add these images, we would also take care of a proper legend. Please read the proposal on my talk page, and give your vision on the solution we came up with.  Wikiklaas  overleg  9 jun 2013 20:51 (CEST)

Dear Archaeodontosaurus, I agree with Wikiklaas. As I earlier mailed to you, I was not amused with the way you added images of eggs to the bird articles. Let the Dutch editors take care of the use of images of eggs (or not). Friendly greeting, HWN (overleg) 10 jun 2013 08:19 (CEST)

Block 24 hours

Hi, I have blocked your account for 24 hours, because of a request that was submitted by Wikiklaas, see over here. I saw that many users from this Wikipedia have tried to communicate with you with respect to the addition of pictures and captions. In this way mistakes are introduced in the encyclopedia, which is counterproductive. Since you seem not to be able to communicate or cooperate in a proper way with other users, I have blocked you. Your actions are unfavorable and furthermore keep our good users from their projects and valuable contributions. Best regards, C (o) 11 jun 2013 17:26 (CEST)

Hi Didier, in sesponse to your latest reply on my talk page, I already mentioned that I saw no other options than to ask for a local block. I forgot to mention it here. I asked for a temporary block of just one day, in order to let you feel we are serious about this. It's not just me but also other editors who reviewed your edits and strongly urge you to stop adding your images yourself. Your current behaviour is not helping your project, as I become less and less motivated to promote it locally. In the end, users will stumble upon the images anyway.

I'll remove the picture of the Sijs-eggs, as it was placed there contrary to the policy we discussed: to only place images if you understand the context in detail. I noticed your international status as an editor is quite good. Filemover on Commons, autopatroller and editor on several projects. I don't know what policy other projects have with respect to having images added or replaced by someone who is unable to understand the context but on the Dutch language Wikipedia, we don't allow you to do that any longer. There are several places where you will be welcome to notify us of images, for example our helpdesk, our village pump and our biologiecafé. There will be enough contributors, willing to communicate with you. I hope the message is loud and clear now. Cheers.  Wikiklaas  overleg  11 jun 2013 17:56 (CEST)

Reprise

I see you took up your old habit of replacing images bij images created by yourself. You have been warned not to do this once before. Please use the talk page of the articles in order to propose the use of images created by yourself, but let others judge. WIKIKLAAS overleg 24 feb 2018 13:49 (CET)