Overleg gebruiker:Stunteltje/Kladblok/Seven Seas (schip, 1940)

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Category:Seven Seas (ship, 1941) in Commons[brontekst bewerken]

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I see you moved Category:Seven Seas (ship, 1941) from being built in 1940 to being built in 1941. I'm not as sure... while ssmaritime.com claims the ship never saw service as a cargo ship, I do wonder about that. It was delivered to Moore-McCormack in May 1940. Per both www.microworks.net and uboat.net, it was not until October 1940 that the directive to create the escort carriers happened, and not until January 1941 that the two initial ships for conversion were actually selected. Seems rather unlikely to me that Moore-McCormack would not have used the ships in the intervening months. Indeed, the first photos on www.navsource.org show the hull painted with the Moore-McCormack name (and some rusting perhaps showing actual use); that seems unlikely to have happened if the ship was transferred to the Navy before completion. It is listed as one of the Moore-McCormack ships on www.theshipslist.com. Based on that, it would seem the 1940 completion year would be the most accurate. That page lists two other "Mormacmail" ships being built, both of which were also converted to escort carriers and I think both of those were transferred before completion; I wonder if that is the possible confusion for the ssmaritime.com statement. It was not until 1946 that Moore-McCormack actually got a replacement ship under the same name. What do you think? Did you have a different basis for choosing 1941 as the completion year? Carl Lindberg (overleg) 14:48, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

I am working on a new article for the USS Long Island, to replace the text in the Dutch Wikipedia. As far as I can see the Mormacmail was not entirely completed as she was transferred to the US Navy in 1941. Completed and commissioned in 1941 but as USS Long Island. Commons uses the year of completion, the English Wikipedia the year of launching. In the referenses I did not find the ship as freighter for Moore-McCormack.

But if you are right, the move has to be reversed.

shipbuildinghistory.com has the keel laid on 1939.08.01, launched on 1940.01.11 (sources seem to agree on that), and completed on 1940.05.29. That seems to be in line with how fast that yard was building that type ship; significantly longer would seem odd. The blurb on
Hallo Stunteltje/Kladblok, en welkom op de Nederlandstalige Wikipedia!
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also gives the completion date, though no source. I did see a reference in a now-deleted board posting, just available in Google Cache here, which says: An American motorship named Mormacmail had plied a drab but respectable trade of cargo and livestock transport between north and south america during the 10 months following her completion in may 1940, then came the national emergency. the navy could not wait to build aircraft carriers from the keel up, so Mormacmail was acquired, a flight deck slapped on her topsides and a few guns mounted, and in June 1941 she was commissioned as the escort carrier Long Island, first of her kind in the US Navy. Ah... found a hit on Google Books for that quote; it is directly copied from page 73 of History of United States Naval Operations in World War II: The struggle for Guadalcanal, August 1942-February 1943, by Samuel Eliot Morison, ISBN 9780252069963 . There is also a reference here, as part of some U.S. Government hearings in 1941, that the Mormacmail was listed as being completed in May 1940. Carl Lindberg (overleg) 16:55, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Did also find this NARA item, Crew lists v. 264, October 1940, image #97 in the list, which documents the Mormacmail stopping off in Hoboken (from Boston), where they swapped out 18 named members of the crew of 51 before leaving for South America. Carl Lindberg (overleg) 00:38, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
There is a similar one on this item (image 680, here), which is for the previous trip starting in August 1940. Both trips were to "East Coast of South America". Carl Lindberg (overleg) 22:54, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
Thanks for your work on this item. Found more details than I did and you were right. Tried to reverse the categoryname to Category:Seven Seas (ship, 1940), but it did not work. Have to ask help or pehaps you can do the job.--Stunteltje (overleg) 06:56, 16 June 2022 (UTC).
I think I figured out a way to do it -- needed to move the redirect out of the way first to a temporary name (leaving no redirect on that step), then move the main category back. Carl Lindberg (overleg) 04:22, 17 June 2022 (UTC) Stunteltje (overleg) 16 jul 2022 10:53 (CEST)Reageren
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