Overleg gebruiker:Mbch331/Archief/mei 2017

Wikidata weekly summary #258

Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.

• Events/Press/Blogs
  • Past: FOSSnorth (Gothenburg), where Lydia gave a keynote about Wikidata
  • Past: Wikidata meetup in Berlin
  • Past: Datensummit in Berlin, organized by OKFN, where we introduced Wikidata and the query service
  • Combining Forces with the Wikipedia Universe - by Songkick, about their data donation
  • Introducing Wikimedian in Residence, Mr Andy Mabbett - by The History of Modern Biomedicine Research Group

• Other Noteworthy Stuff
  • Attention: Editing will be disabled for an hour on May 3rd, to allow a server switch
  • New filters for the Recent Changes will be deployed on May 9th. (more info)
  • new data type for tabular data to be deployed on May 15th
  • Try our new script that displays constraint violations on the item pages
  • Get involved in the movement strategy for Wikidata
  • Query the Mediawiki API with the Query Service? Give us your feedbacks
  • Documentation on using OpenRefine to match from a data set you have to items in Wikidata

• Did you know?
  • Newest properties: Canadian Coastguard Lighthouse ID, contributed to published work, Répertoire national des associations identifier, IPA number order, UNESCO Thesaurus ID, Athletics Australia athlete ID, GuideStar Israel organization ID, MobyGames developer ID, newspaper format, STW Thesaurus for Economics ID, Bollywood Hungama ID, last words, Reprezentacija ID, LoJ peak ID, Ishim ID, GINCO ID, VIVC grape variety ID, column, had as last meal, ADAGP artist ID, CONICET person ID, Medium username
  • Query examples:
    • 15415 people who died in 2016
    • Maps of statues of Jeanne d'Arc on a horse (source)
    • Families who’ve had the same occupation for five generations (source)
    • Couples of capitals more than 19,000 km away from each other (source)
    • A ten-persons “surname = given name” chain on Wikidata (source)
  • Newest database reports: list of newspapers by newspaper format

• Development
  • Working on Lexeme support - specifically grammatical features of Forms of a Lexeme and statements on Forms
  • Finishing touches on a new notification type for Echo. This will notify the creator of an article when it has been connected to an item on Wikidata.
  • The new d:Special:AvailableBadges list all badges that can be used for sitelinks.
  • Discussed implementation plan for Multi Content Revisions which are a building block for structured data on Commons (phabricator:T107595)
  • Worked on feedback for the constraints API and user script
  • Worked on database and access improvements to take load off a much-used database table

You can see all open tickets related to Wikidata here.

• Monthly Tasks
  • Add labels, in your own language(s), for the new properties listed above.
  • Comment on property proposals: all open proposals - proposals needing attention
  • Suggested and open tasks!
  • Contribute to a Showcase item.
  • Help translate or proofread the interface and documentation pages, in your own language!
  • Help merge identical items across Wikimedia projects.
  • Help write the next summary!

Read the full report · Unsubscribe · Lea Lacroix (WMDE) 2 mei 2017 16:08 (CEST)

Wikidata weekly summary #259

Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.

• Discussions
  • New request for comments: Updating References for External Data

• Events/Press/Blogs
  • Registration is open for the Celtic Knot Conference 2017 (July 6th, Edinburgh)
  • Pre-hackathon of the Wikimedia Hackathon, May 12th-14th in Prague
  • Wikimedia Hackathon 2017, May 19th-21st in Vienna. On site or remotely, you can join the Wikidata documentation sprint

• Other Noteworthy Stuff
  • Vote in the board election (see also Voter guides and rationales
  • Sitelinks for the new Doteli Wikipedia (dtywiki) can be added
  • You can now track the number of identifier properties for an item
  • We provide weekly a new type of database dumps: nt truthy dumps
  • Wikipedia article-draft-generator developed by Pharos for Met Museum project
  • Schema.org proposes to encourage the use of Wikidata as a common entity base for the target of the sameAs relation

• Did you know?
  • Newest properties: light sector, Wikidata SPARQL query equivalent, Canadian Coastguard Lighthouse ID, contributed to published work
  • Query examples:
    • All places (with coordinates) that gave its name to something (source)
    • Paintings depicting monkeys (source)
    • Artworks with presumably depicted persons (source)
  • Newest database reports: list of oldest lighthouses

• Development
  • Worked more on support for lexicographical data (specifically support for lexicographic category and statements on forms)
  • Dealt with issues after the deployment of automatic interwiki links for Wiktionary
  • Worked on constraint violation user script based on your feedback (improving messages to make it more understandable, layout, etc)
  • Add support for the following new language codes for monolingual text properties: brx, chn, cop, gez, quc, kjh, nr (will become available in a few days)

You can see all open tickets related to Wikidata here.

• Monthly Tasks
  • Add labels, in your own language(s), for the new properties listed above.
  • Comment on property proposals: all open proposals - proposals needing attention
  • Suggested and open tasks!
  • Contribute to a Showcase item.
  • Help translate or proofread the interface and documentation pages, in your own language!
  • Help merge identical items across Wikimedia projects.
  • Help write the next summary!

Read the full report · Unsubscribe · Lea Lacroix (WMDE) 8 mei 2017 16:57 (CEST)

Sunavoid

Sorry Mbch331, maar dit voldeed niet aan de nuwegcriteria. Ik had het dan ook niet voor niets op TBP gezet. Vriendelijke groet, EvilFreD (overleg) 14 mei 2017 08:06 (CEST)

Ik heb het artikel teruggeplaatst, zodat het de TBP procedure kan doorlopen. Mbch331 (Overleg) 14 mei 2017 08:41 (CEST)

Puik! EvilFreD (overleg) 14 mei 2017 09:06 (CEST)

Merci! ed0_verleg 14 mei 2017 10:13 (CEST)

Wikidata weekly summary #260

Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.

• Discussions
  • Development input: Client editing prototype

• Events/Press/Blogs
  • Past: Pre-hackathon of the Wikimedia Hackathon, May 12th-14th in Prague (see a video of the Wikidata and SPARQL training)
  • Upcoming: Wikimedia Hackathon 2017, May 19th-21st in Vienna. On site or remotely, you can join the Wikidata documentation sprint
  • Upcoming: WikiCite, May 23rd-25th in Vienna
  • Next Wikidata meetup in Berlin: June 7th in WikiBÄR
  • You can still register for the Wikidata/election data hackathon in Ulm, Germany (June 23-25)

• Other Noteworthy Stuff
  • Discuss the movement strategy on Wikidata. The Cycle 2 started on May, 11.
  • WikidataCon: join the program committee and other teams!
  • TwoColConflict is now enabled on Wikidata
  • OSMgadget is a tool to help Wikipedia editors find objects in OpenStreetMap, and tag them with their Wikidata IDs
  • The OSM ↔ Wikidata matcher tool
  • Two language properties will be merged but the discussion still needs to go on
  • Tabular data files datatype is now enabled
  • The constraint table has been updated

• Did you know?
  • Newest properties: NLL player ID, Italian Senate ID, ALPG golfer ID, Stereo Ve Mono artist ID, BioRxiv ID, narrower external class, Juwra.com ID, MLL player ID, Directorio Grierson ID, RANM member ID, Old Bailey Proceedings ID, Tumblr ID, Bmx-results.com rider ID, Israel Antiquities Authority ID, OlimpBase Chess Olympiad player ID, ESTC citation number, named by, Reactome pathway ID, NFF person profile ID, Chamber of Deputies of Italy ID, face value, Cinema ID, Digital Valencian Library author ID, copyright owner, Rallye-info.com driver or co-driver ID, V&A item ID, MotoGP racer ID, eWRC-results.com athlete ID, USATF athlete ID, Track and Field Statistics male athlete ID, Track and Field Statistics female athlete ID, Diamond League athlete ID
  • Query examples:
    • Paintings in the Louvre Museum, with heights and widths (source)
    • Chart of USA cities founded per year (source)
    • Country flags including a symbol of sun (source)
    • Birthplace of Spanish Queen Consorts (source)

• Development
  • More work on Special:NewLexeme page (Phab:T164582)
  • Correctly compare time values on constraints (Phab:T164279)
  • Check wording of messages/constraint check results (Phab:T164354)
  • Creating grammatical features for Forms (Phab:T160525)

You can see all open tickets related to Wikidata here.

• Monthly Tasks
  • Help adding missing statements to properties
  • Add labels, in your own language(s), for the new properties listed above.
  • Comment on property proposals: all open proposals - proposals needing attention
  • Suggested and open tasks!
  • Contribute to a Showcase item.
  • Help translate or proofread the interface and documentation pages, in your own language!
  • Help merge identical items across Wikimedia projects.
  • Help write the next summary!

Read the full report · Unsubscribe · Lea Lacroix (WMDE) 15 mei 2017 21:48 (CEST)

Collaboration products newsletter: 2017-05

Latest news from the Wikimedia Collaboration team, about Notifications, Flow and Edit Review Improvements. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you.

What's new?

• “New Filters for Edit Review” beta released: As of May 9, the New Filters for Edit Review beta has been released to all wikis. The beta lets users review edits on Recent Changes using an easier and more powerful interface and many new tools, including user-defined highlighting and, on some wikis, predictive filters powered by ORES, a machine-learning program. You must opt in to the beta to try it out.
• More features coming soon: The New Filters are still very much in development. In addition to fixing bugs and making adjustments (here’s our current to-do list), we’re actively adding new features, many at users’ request. A few notable additions you can look for this month: A cool tool for saving filter settings; a “Watchlisted pages” filter; a “Flagged Revisions” filter (for some wikis only); a “Last revision” filter.
• Tell us your ideas—but don’t wait: The team is focused right now in making changes to the New Filters beta. But in a few months, we’ll be moving on to other projects. So now is the time to give the new tools a try and then tell us what you think. What works well? What could make things better for you?
• In the medium-term: By the end of summer, we plan to complete a suite of improvements that will, among other things: incorporate all the remaining Recent Changes tools into the new filtering interface; create new ways for reviewers to move back and forth through the filter queue; implement a “Reverted” filter; and, finally, bring the New Filters UI and tools to Watchlist.
• Have time for a talk? We're looking for people we can interview about their experiences with the new beta. If you’re a regular user of Recent Changes and have tried the new features—and if you can spare an hour to chat in English with our design researcher—please email dchenwikimedia.org with the subject line “user interview.” Let us know how to get in touch with you and what time zone (city, country...) you’re in.
• Wish you had ORES on your wiki? Some of the more interesting New Filters for Edit Review features are dependent on the machine-learning service ORES, which is available only on a small but growing list of wikis. For ORES to work on a wiki, volunteers from that wiki must train it by scoring some thousands of sample edits. Here’s a link that explains how the process works and how you can get it started on your wiki.

Edit Review Improvements [More information • Help pages]

Recent changes

• Many Recent Changes pages have on top a list of links. We plan to integrate those links in a collapsible menu. You are invited to comment the 3 proposals we have drafted on Phabricator.
• On wikis where Flagged Revisions are used, an edit highlighted as bad by ORES will not be highlighted anymore when the edit is reviewed by someone. [1]
• You can highlight pages that are in your Watchlist in Recent Changes. 3 different filters are available: in watchlist, not in watchlist, new changes in watchlist. [2]
• Wikidata, Dutch, Czech, Hebrew, Estonian and Finnish Wikipedia now have the new filters available as a Beta feature, and ORES is enabled by default on those wikis. [3]
• All wikis now have the Recent changes Filters as a Beta feature. [4]
• Users are invited to opt in to the Recent changes Filters beta when they visit the Recent Changes page. [5]
• On wikis that have ORES predictions enabled by default, it is now possible to choose how to display the predictions in watchlist and recent changes pages. [6]

Future changes

• It will be possible soon to save and retreive your favorite filters combinations. [7]
• We are working on adding filter groups for last revisions, edits from Wikidata and reverted edits. [8][9][10]

Notifications [More information • Help pages]

Recent changes

• When an article you have created is linked to a Wikidata item, you can receive a notification. Wikidata and all the Wikivoyages have it since May 9th, other wikis will follow. [11]
• Special:Notifications tabs is now set to "Unread" if there are any unread messages. [12]

Flow [More information • Help pages]

Recent changes

• You can enable Flow as a Beta feature on your talk page on Arabic Wikipedia and Catalan Wikiquote. [13][14]
• When you send more than 50 mentions on one Flow post, you are now warned you have hit the limit. [15]

Collaboration team's newsletter prepared by the Collaboration team and posted by bot • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

16 mei 2017 17:19 (CEST)

Notificatie

Dag Mbch331, als je na een bewerking door mij dit ziet: Citefout: Onjuist label <ref>; er is geen tekst opgegeven voor referenties met de naam Latreille, zou je dan een seintje op m'n OP willen achterlaten, in plaats van het zelf "op te lossen"? Ik had die fout gezien nadat ik opsloeg, maar wist dat ik met die pagina nog verder moest, en het opnieuw zou tegenkomen. Die lege ref was uiteraard meegekopieerd van de pagina waarvan ik de geslachtengroepen (tribus, meervoud tribus) had overgeheveld. In m'n bewerkingssamenvatting stond ook "later verder". Uiteraard had ik bedacht dat die foutmelding kwam doordat ik een lege ref had meegekopieerd, en dat ik bij de volgende bewerking ook de inhoud nog moest terughalen. Dan was het wel handig geweest als ik later weer op die fout opmerkzaam was gemaakt.

Om kort te gaan: jouw oplossing was een cosmetische ingreep: die haalde een foutmelding weg, maar deed niets aan de onderliggende oorzaak ervan: er had daar een referentie moeten staan, maar dan een met inhoud. Ik zie dat vaker, dat foutmeldingen worden weggepoetst door de foutmelding zelf weg te halen, in plaats van iets aan de onderliggende oorzaak te doen. Dan heeft zo'n foutmelding in feite weinig zin. Volgens mij is die juist bedoeld om de bewerker erop te attenderen dat er nog iets moet gebeuren. Dat is bijna altijd iets anders dan gewoon het ding dat de foutmelding veroorzaakt maar weg te halen. Ik doe best veel bewerkingen, en weet dat ik daarbij fouten maak. Ik vind het prima als ik daar op m'n OP op gewezen wordt, zodat ik iets aan een echte oplossing kan doen. Ik bedacht me net toevallig dat ik gisteren nog ergens een vette rode fout had gezien waaraan nog iets moest gebeuren, ik wist alleen niet meer zo snel waar. Mazzel dat ik deze nog terugvond; voor hetzelfde geld had ik er nooit meer aan gedacht, en was er inhoud verloren gegaan. WIKIKLAAS overleg 22 mei 2017 01:17 (CEST)

Ik kijk wel altijd de geschiedenis na wat er gebeurt is, vaak hebben mensen een stuk tekst met de oorspronkelijke ref verwijderd, waardoor deze fout ontstaat. In dit geval kon ik in de geschiedenis niets vinden. Volgende keer zal ik jou er op attenderen. Mbch331 (Overleg) 22 mei 2017 09:03 (CEST)

Wikidata weekly summary #261

Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.

• Discussions
  • Open request for adminship: MisterSynergy, Queryzo, ChristianKl

• Events/Press/Blogs
  • Upcoming: Wahlsalon (event Codefor.de about election data): Kickoff on May 24th in Berlin
  • Upcoming: Open Science: the National Plan and you meeting for Dutch researchers: May 29th in Delft, The Netherlands
  • Current: WikiCite, May 23rd-25th in Vienna
  • Current: Met Open Access Artworks Challenge (May 15th-June 30th) help improving the data about the collection of The Metropolitan Museum of Art!
  • Past: Wikimedia Hackathon 2017, May 19th-21st in Vienna
  • Paper: Becoming Wikidatians: evolution of participation in a collaborative structured knowledge base (Alessandro Piscopo, Christopher Phethean, Elena Simperl)

• Other Noteworthy Stuff
  • The extension RevisionSlider is now available by default on Wikidata. Try it on a talk or project page!
  • Check out some updates about the WikidataCon
  • We reached Q30,000,000! Help us improve it and make a showcase item out of it.
  • An additional 10k article placeholders on Welsh Wikipedia will be made indexable in search engines

• Did you know?
  • Newest properties: Unifrance person ID, Unifrance company ID, IECIC 2015 ID, Songkick venue ID, BVMC work ID, secretary general, Nature preserve in North Rhine-Westphalia ID, PIM authority ID, PASE Domesday place, PASE Domesday person ID, channel number, signed form, CETS no., final event, programming paradigm, Bridgeman artist ID, BDCYL authority ID, Clochers de France ID, Global Trade Item Number, Unifrance film ID, Base biographique AUTOR ID, NNL work ID
  • Query examples:
    • Websites but without an official website
  • Plants with associated emoji (source)
    • Languages ordered by number of speakers (source)
    • HMDB identifiers with more than one item (source)
    • Painters with a lot of identifiers on Wikidata, but few Wikipedia articles (source)
    • Buildings with the greatest numbers of elevators (source)
    • Map of female writers on Wikidata by birthplace- generated by SPARQL query (source)
  • Newest WikiProjects: WikiProject Counter-Vandalism, WikiProject Documentation

• Development
  • Participating to the Wikimedia hackathon 2017, having a lot of interesting talks with users, designers, developers...
  • Helping improving the documentation for the property constraints, the beginner documentation about Wikidata, how to install Wikibase
  • Rewriting most constraint violation messages to include more useful information (phab:T164354, help update translations)
  • Working on a tree view for the Query Service (phab:T152676)
  • Setting up a constraints development/testing wiki
  • Moving PropertySuggester extension from github to gerrit (phab:T104309)
  • Working on performance of change dispatching so database of wikidata goes read-only in lower rate (phab:T162557)
  • Reducing number of duplicates rows in our database table for labels, descriptions and aliases to make it faster (phab:T163551)

You can see all open tickets related to Wikidata here.

• Monthly Tasks
  • Add labels, in your own language(s), for the new properties listed above.
  • Comment on property proposals: all open proposals - proposals needing attention
  • Suggested and open tasks!
  • Contribute to a Showcase item.
  • Help translate or proofread the interface and documentation pages, in your own language!
  • Help merge identical items across Wikimedia projects.
  • Help write the next summary!

Read the full report · Unsubscribe · Lea Lacroix (WMDE) 23 mei 2017 13:57 (CEST)

Verwijderde pagina

Ik zag dat je de pagina https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watermelon_Messenger hebt verwijdert, echter ben ik het hier niet mee eens. De betreffende pagina is geschreven aan de hand van andere noemenswaardige softwarebedrijven (bijvb. Slack) en met dezelfde inhoud opgezet, zonder enig doel van reclame. Dit enkel met het doel om Wikipedia verder te voorzien van noemenswaardige content/artikelen. Jarikoost (overleg) 26 mei 2017 10:47 (CEST)

Ik heb het artikel gelezen, het betreft een bedrijf dat nog relatief kort bestaat en nog relatief weinig bereikt is. Het kwam promotioneel over. Lees eens WP:5Z en de daar gelinkte pagina's door. Als u daarna nog steeds van mening bent dat mijn besluit foutief was, dan kunt u op WP:TERUG een second opinion aanvragen bij een collega moderator. Echter is dat geen garantie dat de pagina ook daadwerkelijk teruggeplaatst wordt. Mbch331 (Overleg) 26 mei 2017 10:55 (CEST)

Jammer dat het artikel zo over kwam, dat was niet mijn bedoeling. Het bedrijf heeft intussen +1000 klanten en 1.65 miljoen aan funding opgehaald, er is dus al zeker wel wat bereikt. Dank voor je snelle reactie, ik zal alles nog doorlezen en een second opinion aanvragen / mijn geschreven omschrijving herschrijven. Jarikoost (overleg) 26 mei 2017 11:00 (CEST)

Hebben onafhankelijke secundaire bronnen al over het onderwerp geschreven? Zo ja, zorg dat je het artikel daar op baseert. Niet op primaire bronnen (bedrijf zelf). En lees ook vooral WP:ZP eens goed door. Mbch331 (Overleg) 26 mei 2017 11:04 (CEST)

Dank voor de reactie. Onafhankelijke secundaire bronnen hebben inderdaad over het onderwerp geschreven. Ik had een onafhankelijke secundaire bron opgenomen, echter had ik ervoor gekozen primaire bronnen. Dit omdat ik dacht dat deze relevanter waren in dit geval. In het vervolg zal ik dit niet verwerken in de artikelen. Ik zal het genoemde artikel ook doornemen. Moet ik het artikel eerst herschrijven en opnieuw publiceren, gezien o.a. de primaire bronnen die ik had gebruikt? Jarikoost (overleg) 26 mei 2017 11:12 (CEST)

Begin eerst eens met de pagina's door te lezen die ik genoemd heb (in mijn eerste twee reacties) en misschien slimmer om dan eerst eens te beginnen op Gebruiker:Jarikoost/Kladblok en zodra je denkt dat het af is eens door onafhankelijke ogen (die niet bij Watermelon betrokken zijn op enigerlei wijze) het artikel door te laten lezen. Indien dan de conclusie is, dat het neutraal geschreven is en het gebaseerd is op onafhankelijke secundaire bronnen, dan kan je het plaatsen als artikel zelf. Mbch331 (Overleg) 26 mei 2017 11:17 (CEST)

Wikidata weekly summary #262

Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.

• Discussions
  • Closed request for adminship: MisterSynergy, Queryzo, ChristianKl (all successful)
  • New request for comments: Allow the creation of links to redirects in Wikidata

• Events/Press/Blogs
  • Past: WikiCite, May 23rd-25th in Vienna. Documentation will be available soon, in the meantime you can check on Twitter and the video streams to see what happened
  • Six degrees on Wikidata, by Andrew Gray
  • Some statistics on scholarly data in Wikidata, by Finn Årup Nielsen
  • Wikidata for librarians, by Dan Scott

• Other Noteworthy Stuff
  • Eurowings app uses Wikidata
  • Are you searching for geolocations of Wikipedia articles on the OSM map? Alex-7 created a web app.
  • Breaking change: sitelink encoding changing in RDF export/WDQS

• Did you know?
  • Newest properties: Filmweb.pl ID, racon signal, Vitaskrá ID, SSB urban settlement number, Austrian Textbook ID, EKATTE place ID, members have occupation, National Library Board Singapore ID, SHARE Catalogue author ID, Sequence Ontology ID, supports programming language, subreddit, sports league level, TA98 Latin term, Misjonsarkiv person ID, Unifrance person ID, Unifrance company ID, IECIC 2015 ID, Songkick venue ID, BVMC work ID, secretary general, nature preserve in North Rhine-Westphalia ID, PIM authority ID, PASE Domesday place, PASE Domesday person ID
  • Query examples:
    • Map of subreddits associated to a place on Earth (source)
    • Potential reviewers for papers in computer science (source)
    • Paintings with 'portrait' in the name that lack P180 / depicts (source)
    • Publications and presentations about WikiCite (source)
  • Newest WikiProjects: WikiProject Zika Corpus
  • Newest external tools: Wikidata to CSV
  • Newest database reports: Roger Moore filmography

• Development
  • Attending WikiCite
  • Showing badges on other projects (phab:T73887)
  • Improving label tracking (phab:T151717)
  • Working more on statements on forms in order to support lexicographical data

You can see all open tickets related to Wikidata here.

• Monthly Tasks
  • Add labels, in your own language(s), for the new properties listed above.
  • Comment on property proposals: all open proposals - proposals needing attention
  • Suggested and open tasks!
  • Contribute to a Showcase item.
  • Help translate or proofread the interface and documentation pages, in your own language!
  • Help merge identical items across Wikimedia projects.
  • Help write the next summary!

Read the full report · Unsubscribe · Lea Lacroix (WMDE) 29 mei 2017 17:22 (CEST)

Smile.jpg

Hallo Mbch331, je hebt zonet het artikel Smile.jpg verwijderd. De reden die je opgaf in de bewerkingssamenvatting is Geen zinvolle inhoud. Smile.jpg bestaat echter wel degelijk, het is een creepypasta. Het artikel ter beoordeling aan de gemeenschap voorleggen lijkt mij een betere manier van afhandelen dan nuweggen. Zou je het artikel kunnen terugplaatsen? maarten|overleg 30 mei 2017 19:20 (CEST)

Als het inderdaad bestaat, dan is het geen nuweg. Ik heb er een wiu van gemaakt. Mbch331 (Overleg) 30 mei 2017 19:25 (CEST)

Ik zag het, dank voor de snelle service. maarten|overleg 30 mei 2017 19:26 (CEST)

Graag gedaan. Ik zag dat je het artikel al flink op de schop had genomen, goed bezig. Mbch331 (Overleg) 30 mei 2017 19:30 (CEST)